Curse

samifly · Aug 18, 2006, 04:31 AM // 04:31

I think its a little overboard for a spirit, and makes it pretty much useless. Change the way it determins "species" or whatever, lower the already low damage. I mean its in beastmastery for goodness sake, so unless you are using a pet its wasting alot of your points. Oh and yeay...urgoz takes longer....

MooseyFate · Aug 18, 2006, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Well, they fundamentally f-ed EoE.

Quote:

[url]http://www.guildwars.com/support/gameupdates/[\url]
8/17/06
"Modified Edge of Extinction so that creatures must have less than 90% Health remaining in order to be affected."

Maybe there were (or will be with Nightfall) some aspects that make it unbalanced. But for me, a person who just likes to play everything a little, EoE was one of those "really cool skills that I barely ever use, but am excited by the idea of it and use it a little". This change takes away all that excitement. I have a ranger that hit Lv. 19 tonight. Guess I don't have to buy the skill for him, huh?

There are the two places I think EoE needed changed:
1) Urgoz Warden... the final boss battle is just a joke with EoE. Funny once, but dumb any more than that. This change doesn't fix anything. Groups will just bring some minor degen to get him down to 90%, then run the same EoE technique to finish him off.
2) EoE Bomb in 8v8. It is exciting that this is a possible build to run or have to fight. It's overspecialized, and therefore suffers serious weakness and is not overpowered. The one element that debatably makes this build too powerful is using a rez technique that works through Frozen Soil (like ashes). So if this was the problem, Frozen would have been the skill that needed changed, not EoE. And for those of you who say "I hated fighting EoE anyways", yeah, everyone could bitch about the build they don't use. I say instead just roll with it and try every build once or twice just for the fun of something different. I haven't used EoE bomb for 4-6 months, but I don't want this build become extinct itself.

Like I said, I don't use it much, but the idea was exciting... now... not so much. ANet, why not just remove the skill? (ps - yeah, exaggeration, but still)

azunder · Aug 18, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

So...people are angry because EoE no longer kills EVERYTHING at radar range?

What kind of nerf would you have done instead?

Mercury Angel · Aug 18, 2006, 04:40 AM // 04:40

You'll notice a good number of posts in this thread have been removed, or have a nifty little red tag indicating the content was edited.

Please don't respond to a user you feel is trolling, particularly if it's to say you know they're trolling. Instead of having to delete 1-2 posts, I had to delete 5-6, and edit another 5-6.

Regardless of whether they're trolling or not, it's all off-topic, and it'll be dealt with in the timeliest manner possible, when a moderator is aware of it.

</end moderator business>
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On-topic -

EoE bombing was an ineffective gimmick build that rolled unprepared teams. Well, it was better when it was broken, and EoE effects triggered based on the player's location, and not the spirit's, enabling it to reach significantly father than it should have.

But this also hits the usefulness of it in PvE as well. You kill a few monsters at a time, and the EoE triggers to damage the other enemies, who are normally of the same species. Now you have to weaken them all, which really kills the purpose of it.

On the bright side, teamkill effects have been mostly neutered, including Edge and minions, minimizing griefing potential.

And, I rarely use Edge of Extinction, so I'm not really going to complain about this much. It's a bit annoying, but meh, it's their choice.

twicky_kid · Aug 18, 2006, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by azunder

So...people are angry because EoE no longer kills EVERYTHING at radar range?

What kind of nerf would you have done instead?

Make it easier to kill or give it a shorter duration.

Lady Lozza · Aug 18, 2006, 04:43 AM // 04:43

I don't agree with this nerf. It makes the skill next to useless in pve. How?
Well I'm with a team that focuses fire and takes down one creature at a time. Now EoE is pointless unless we had an ele with meteor shower with us doing damage to multiple enemies.

Simple nerf: MAKE IT NOT AFFECT HUMANS!
So it couldn't be used against outcasts, white manlte, etc, but no one in pve puts the spirit down in those situations anyway, because it is detrimental to your own team. This would get rid of the griefers in AB, and EoE Bombs in Halls - let's face it, EoE in halls was fun to play, but it wasn't a serious build and it was easy to beat.

Mera Regila · Aug 18, 2006, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by I pwnd U

Who cares if its old or not. Anyways This is a great idea. EoE has been a curse to some parts of the game. It plauged HA for awhile with the stupid EoE bombs. Then came IWAY, and so on and so forth. EoE is a great spell but it was too powerful. Ya it will still be in IWAY but it wont be as dangerous to players that are at full health or closer. Great nerf.

Non to mention Aspenwood, it became FAR too easy for Luxons to win with EoE. Even KURZICKS could ruin the show for us by making Spirit Spammer Rangers lay EoE within the Green Chamber so the decent Luxons couldn't get it to make the game fair, and kurzicks just cant kill the spirit.

HA was not ruined by EoE tho, it was simple to just get out of EoE range, then after they all suicided, you could come in for the kill. P.S. EoE at AB was fun, whenever one group lost, the other group would all die too! It was halarious.

GloryFox · Aug 18, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

EoE Sac bombers killed the EoE Bomb...LOL! Serves em Right!

kai_razorwind · Aug 18, 2006, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Once again pve gets screwed because of pvp...They will simply rush in with a fix to anything that affects pvp without caring about what happens to pve as a consequence. Did anyone at Arenanet think that they just made whoever has an Urgoz bow several times richer because it will be a LOT harder to get them now? GG, just friggin typical. They could have solved the problem in a number of ways, yet they did it in a way such that it manages to hurt pve. OMG mms own in ABs! NEEEERF! OMG eoe is being used in a bad way in ABs! NEEERF!
Pathetic...

arcanemacabre · Aug 18, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Question: When exactly does the EoE take effect? I'm asking because I'm wondering if you could use a Death Nova saccer to bomb a group, effectively nuking twice? Would this work? Death Nova doing enough damage to a tight formation to drop them below the 90% mark, then that saccer's death triggering EoE?

Yeah, don't know much about it as I've never used it, but I'm thinking theoretically it could work.

twicky_kid · Aug 18, 2006, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Question: When exactly does the EoE take effect? I'm asking because I'm wondering if you could use a Death Nova saccer to bomb a group, effectively nuking twice? Would this work? Death Nova doing enough damage to a tight formation to drop them below the 90% mark, then that saccer's death triggering EoE?

Yeah, don't know much about it as I've never used it, but I'm thinking theoretically it could work.

10% lower in life is enough to qualify EoE to hit you. That's only 40-50 dmg from max life. Death nova does 100+ Armor ignoring dmg. It will make EoE trigger with even 1 hit.

As for the timing. I don't know if nova or EoE hits first upon death.

lg5000 · Aug 18, 2006, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai_razorwind

Once again pve gets screwed because of pvp...They will simply rush in with a fix to anything that affects pvp without caring about what happens to pve as a consequence. Did anyone at Arenanet think that they just made whoever has an Urgoz bow several times richer because it will be a LOT harder to get them now? GG, just friggin typical. They could have solved the problem in a number of ways, yet they did it in a way such that it manages to hurt pve. OMG mms own in ABs! NEEEERF! OMG eoe is being used in a bad way in ABs! NEEERF!
Pathetic...

They solved it the best way possible, though, not letting things die before a mission/battle starts would probably have done the trick as well.

I was quite fond of taking eoe with henchies, though.. always made sure I was up against non-humans when using it cause henchies die fast

Morganas · Aug 18, 2006, 05:26 AM // 05:26

It's irrelevant that it was nerfed in PVE. EOE was just one of many cheap tricks that make pve trivially easy. There will be more cheap tricks to replace it.

For PVP, the change, however, not only prevents griefing, but brings EOE in line with other spirits as far as its use: something to leverage a certain aspect of your build, not something to build around. EOE can now be used by degen/pressure builds against spike builds.

tomcruisejr · Aug 18, 2006, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morganas

For PVP, the change, however, not only prevents griefing, but brings EOE in line with other spirits as far as its use: something to leverage a certain aspect of your build, not something to build around. EOE can now be used by degen/pressure builds against spike builds.

the only build that was built around EoE was the EoE bomb with Mark of Protection. if other builds used eoe, it was to leverage their overall pressure and to have a backup plan if everything sucked.

but yea, EoE is now not that risky to use. still usable in iway, hopefully.

Avarre · Aug 18, 2006, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Glad of this... EoE should never have made it possible to eradicate whole rooms in PvE or PvP. It was grossly overpowered and too good to be true, especially in areas like Urgoz (which was the cause most likely).

Get that into your head PvE junkies, it was Urgoz abuse that cause the nerf as well as the AB overuse.

GG Anet.

twicky_kid · Aug 18, 2006, 05:56 AM // 05:56

If a skill had the name extinction in it I expect no less than to kill everything in site.

They should have made it so you couldn't die before the battle started.

Avarre · Aug 18, 2006, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Extinction tends to happen when the entire race is weakened, not when one drops dead

Makes more sense that one a race is below a certain point of strength, the slippery slope starts.

They still would have had to do something to areas like Urgoz.

azunder · Aug 18, 2006, 06:01 AM // 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Make it easier to kill or give it a shorter duration.

It's already easy to kill. And, that nerf won't affect it that much in pve unless you have the monsters go for the spirit every time.

A shorter duration...most people who carry EoE (in pvp) have oath shot, just in case it's killed. So, unless you nerf it's duration to something less than 25 seconds there's no real difference.

Any other ideas?

tomcruisejr · Aug 18, 2006, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Kinda defeats the purpose of EoE imo. You'd have to focus damage on 8 different targets to get them down past 90% each and if EoE is dropped it isn't hard for the monk to bring them back up just beyond.

or just have a dedicated Heal Party characters in your enemies team and soon EoE will join the ranks of mending, watchful spirit and other skills that no one wants to even see in their skill bars.

azunder · Aug 18, 2006, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Maybe a nerf like "deals half damage on creatures with more than X% HP?" would be better?